Legislature(2023 - 2024)BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
04/25/2023 03:30 PM Senate STATE AFFAIRS
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| Consideration of Governor Appointees | |
| SB61 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | SB 61 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE
April 25, 2023
3:41 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Scott Kawasaki, Chair
Senator Matt Claman, Vice Chair
Senator Jesse Bjorkman
Senator Bill Wielechowski
Senator Kelly Merrick
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CONFIRMATION HEARINGS
Commissioner, Department of Corrections
Jen Winkelman - Juneau
- CONFIRMATION ADVANCED
Alaska Public Offices Commission
Eric Feige
- CONFIRMATION ADVANCED
SENATE BILL NO. 61
"An Act relating to an interstate compact to elect the President
and Vice-President of the United States by national popular
vote; and relating to the selection of electors for candidates
for President and Vice-President of the United States and to the
duties of those electors."
- HEARD & HELD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: SB 61
SHORT TITLE: US PRESIDENT ELECT. POPULAR VOTE COMPACT
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) WIELECHOWSKI
02/07/23 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/07/23 (S) JUD, STA
03/13/23 (S) JUD AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
03/13/23 (S) Heard & Held
03/13/23 (S) MINUTE(JUD)
04/17/23 (S) JUD AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
04/17/23 (S) Moved SB 61 Out of Committee
04/17/23 (S) MINUTE(JUD)
04/19/23 (S) JUD RPT 2DP 1DNP 1NR
04/19/23 (S) DP: CLAMAN, TOBIN
04/19/23 (S) NR: GIESSEL
04/19/23 (S) DNP: KAUFMAN
04/25/23 (S) STA AT 3:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
WITNESS REGISTER
JEN WINKELMAN, Commissioner-Designee
Department of Corrections
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as Commissioner-Designee for the
Department of Corrections.
ERIC FEIGE, Appointee
Alaska Public Offices Commission
Department of Administration (DOA)
Chickaloon, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as an appointee to the Alaska
Public Offices Commission.
DAVID DUNSMORE, Staff
Senator Bill Wielechowski
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented the sectional analysis for SB 61
on behalf of the sponsor.
DR. JOHN KOZA, Chair
National Popular Vote
Los Altos, California
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified by invitation in support of SB 61.
SAUL ANUZIS, representing self
Washington, DC
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 61.
MICHAEL OWENS, representing self
Palmer, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 61.
JUDY ANDREE, representing self
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 61.
ALEX KOPLIN, representing self
Homer, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 61.
KASSIE ANDREWS, representing self
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 61.
KEN HUCKEBA, representing self
Wasilla, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 61.
KEN GRIFFIN, representing self
Wasilla, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 61.
SEAN PARNELL, Senior Fellow
Save our States
Virginia
POSITION STATEMENT:
PAT REDMOND, representing self
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 61.
KARLA HART, representing self
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 61.
ACTION NARRATIVE
3:41:02 PM
VICE CHAIR MATT CLAMAN called the Senate State Affairs Standing
Committee meeting to order at 3:41 p.m. Present at the call to
order were Senators Bjorkman, Merrick, Wielechowski, and Vice
Chair Claman. Senator Kawasaki arrived soon thereafter.
^CONSIDERATION OF GOVERNOR APPOINTEES
CONSIDERATION OF GOVERNOR APPOINTEES
COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS
ALASKA PUBLIC OFFICES COMMISSION
3:41:58 PM
VICE CHAIR CLAMAN announced the confirmation hearing for Jen
Winkelman, Commissioner-Designee for the Department of
Corrections.
3:42:22 PM
JEN WINKELMAN, Commissioner-Designee, Department of Corrections,
Juneau, Alaska, offered the following prepared statement:
th
A little bit about myself. I am a 4 generation
Alaskan. I was born and raised in Fairbanks. My
paternal grandparents homesteaded on Chena Hot Springs
Road. A fun fact- my great grandma was born in
Chicken, Alaska. I graduated from the University of
Alaska Fairbanks with a degree in Justice and
Paralegal Studies. I thought I would continue on to
law school or graduate school for Chemistry. At one
point, I wanted to be an attorney or work in a crime
lab.
During my final days in college, I participated in an
internship in the Fairbanks District Attorney's office
and had the privilege of learning about the work
Probation/Parole Officers do. I was intrigued by the
ability to wear two hats in one job. One was that of a
social worker and the other was that of a public
safety officer. I was fortunate enough to be hired on
as PO a little over 22 years ago. By trade I would
call myself a Probation and Parole Officer. I started
as an entry level Probation Officer and wrote
th
presentence reports for the 4 Judicial District and
have worked my way through the ranks of this wonderful
career.
While in the field, I have covered and supervised
offices from our northernmost office in
Barrow/Utqiagvik to our southernmost office in
Ketchikan. I have also worked for the Division of
Institutions, inside Fairbanks and Palmer. Not only
did this give me experience working the toughest beat
inside our facilities, it gave me experience working
with both unsentenced and sentenced inmates.
In 2016, my family and I relocated to Juneau when I
accepted a position as the Chief Probation Officer of
Region 2. The region consisted of Fairbanks, Western
Alaska, Northern Alaska as well as Southeast. I feel
strongly this position gave me a very unique and
special view of Corrections across the state. I am
familiar with the strengths and struggles,
particularly as they pertain to Corrections, across
the state and how they differ from one area to the
next.
In 2018, then Commissioner Dahlstrom trusted me to run
the Division of Pretrial, Probation and Parole and I
was appointed into the Director position. I held that
position until being presented this current
opportunity by Governor Dunleavy. When the Governor
asked me to step into the Commissioner role, it was an
incredibly easy yes for a couple of different reasons,
but I would say that the most significant factor was
the support that the Governor and the Legislature has
given to the Department and our staff.
My husband of 13 years, Ron, is in the room today. He
is Alaska Native, an Athabascan Indian born in the
village of Shageluk on the Inoko River. He is
absolutely my biggest supporter. He retired in 2016,
after 30 years with the Department of Corrections. He
worked as both a Correctional and Probation Officer.
We get a couple of raised eyebrows when our children
tell their friends that their mom and dad met in jail.
We have 2 beautiful school age boys who love soccer,
baseball, skiing/snowboarding and we live in Juneau,
so of course, fishing!
3:45:55 PM
A little more about me, I value developing and
building relationships. With staff, outside agencies,
the Legislature, and of course those in our care and
custody. My experience across the state has led me
figuring out how to work together with whatever
resources might be available. Very early on in my
career a colleague shared with me that we are in the
relationship business and that is something I have
never forgotten. We cannot work Corrections alone or
in a silo. It takes a team.
DESIGNEE WINKELMAN continued
Another value I bring to this position is that I am
naturally a problem solver. I like to think outside
the box for solutions. During my career I have managed
a caseload of felony offenders. I am not afraid to
tackle tough, sensitive situations when a decision
needs to be made. This may mean making an arrest or
removing someone from their home to help a victim or a
child. On the flip side I may be working with someone
who has hit rock bottom and I would make the decision
to refer them to treatment instead of taking them to
jail. These type of decisions I never made lightly. I
have been fair and impartial in making decisions. I
consider facts and successfully formulate decisions
based on the big picture and ultimately the safety of
our community. These are skills critical for the
Commissioner of Corrections.
Before I go into my goals, I would like to mention
something I appreciated the Chairman sharing years
ago. These are my words, so I hope I am reflecting
your sentiment accurately. You acknowledged that long
range vision for Corrections is really important and
the changes from one administration to the next makes
it difficult for the Commissioner of Corrections to do
their job. Having been a staff member of DOC through
several different administrations, pendulum shifts of
being tough on crime, easier on crime, putting money
into programming, cutting programming, I could not
agree more that the job demands a long vision, and the
position is an imperative part of public safety. I
will also take the opportunity to say on the record
that reentry has to be considered just as much a part
of public safety as incarceration.
You have likely heard me talk about my 3 goals or
vision for the Department in various meetings. I would
like to share them here on the record.
Health and Well Being of staff. Starts with shifting a
culture so there is nobility in the profession of
Corrections, no matter where you work in the
Department. Kitchen, Maintenance, Admin, Medical, to
our officers. Giving staff a sense of purpose and
having them recognize they are part of something
bigger. Healthier staff will have a greater impact on
those in our care. Providing training and promotable
opportunities once staff are on board is critical to
job satisfaction. We have 24 hour jobs, having the
ability to be flexible in our work day or schedule
helps promote wellness.
My second goal is that those who enter our system,
leave us better than they came to us. I've been doing
this long enough to know I am not going to save the
world. There are some dangerous individuals in our
care that because they are there, we are safer. But
for those releasing, making sure they release better
than they came to us is important. It may mean a
shower, sober for a few days?. Or maybe they are
reunited with kids or a GED.
Finally, as cliché as it sounds?.do the same thing you
get the same result. We need to be using resources,
technology and best practices to do business
differently. The hope is this will drive down
recidivism. This might be as simple as examining
current old practices and upgrading assessments to
implementing tablets to help with everything from
programming to visitation.
3:49:26 PM
When I go back to goal number 2 that folks leave us
better than they came to us, I want to touch on deaths
in custody. I've said it before and I will say it
again, 18 deaths in 2022 is too many. Every death
affects someone's parent, their loved one, or even our
staff. While we have an unhealthy and quite vulnerable
population, we look every day to do things better to
prevent any unexpected deaths. While we cannot
disclose details, I will share that in 2022, 11 were
natural causes and 7 were suicide. For purposes of
today I'll share a few things about suicide behind our
walls.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE WINKELMAN continued.
Suicide in our community and inside correctional
facilities has gone up nearly 30 percent.
Unfortunately, it is no surprise that our numbers have
gone up. We screen every individual that gets booked
into our facilities and do our best to determine if
suicide is a risk and handle the case appropriately.
Unfortunately, individuals with trauma and years of
substance abuse sometimes do not share everything. We
do the best that we can. We are constantly striving to
improve outcomes and close gaps. This is accomplished
through staff training, policy changes, and continuous
assessment for suicide risk factors. We are utilizing
Project 2025 to guide suicide prevention planning
within the department. The National Commission on
Correctional Health Care partnered with the American
Foundation for Suicide Prevention with the goal of
reducing suicide 20 percent by 2025. While we continue
to seek out ways to decrease suicide, it is important
to share that we have implemented jump barriers and
will continue to look at where we could have them.
We've added camera cells and we've increased window
sizing for visibility in key areas. We are looking at
technology for tracking rounds and doing checks and
we're looking at technology for tracking heart rates,
similar to a Fitbit. The work is never done with this
population.
3:51:10 PM
Another important detail that we've been working on is
messaging. Where we can, due to HIPPA law, we're
getting the information out to the general public on
our website. This aggregate data on our population and
what we're doing is critically important. It is
equally important to share information about positive
outcomes behind the walls from the near daily saves.
We have some pretty incredible staff who have chosen
to work in corrections and work with this population.
There are definitely more glamorous jobs, but we have
staff dedicated daily to our population. And when we
have a death it does affect us all.
In closing, I just want to say it is an absolute honor
and a privilege to serve the Department and those in
our care and custody. To echo some of the words of
Chief Justice Winfree last week, I am just a kid from
Fairbanks who had a dream to someday be in a position
to make important decisions and effect the wellbeing
of others. I have been honored to do just that as a
Probation/Parole Officer for most of my career. To my
delight and surprise I now find myself with an
opportunity to head the Department I love. I am
committed to giving it all I have to give for not only
the 2100 employees, the nearly 11,000 in our care and
custody? but for all Alaskans.
Thank you again for your time and support today and I
am happy to answer your questions.
VICE-CHAIR CLAMAN asked if there were any questions for
Commissioner-Designee Winkelman
3:52:31 PM
SENATOR MERRICK thanked Commissioner-Designee Winkelman for
setting up the tour for her at the Highland Mountain
Correctional Center. She agreed that the staff are critical to
the mission and expressed appreciation for everything she was
doing.
VICE-CHAIR CLAMAN asked what the protocol was for someone who is
actively suicidal, and what DOC could do better to ensure that
those in crisis are given a more therapeutic experience as
opposed to more time in isolation.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE WINKELMAN said she would need to ask the
experts about the specifics of protocol, but everyone who is
booked is screened when they enter the system. The screening
tool is evidence-based and staff expertise is relied on to
determine where the person should be placed. She offered to
follow up with more specifics on protocols.
VICE-CHAIR CLAMAN asked about access to health care and how the
grievance procedure plays into that.
3:54:45 PM
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE WINKELMAN replied that all inmates are
constitutionally required to receive essential healthcare
through DOC. Individuals request specific care and her
understanding is that inmate health care needs are been met.
SENATOR KAWASAKI joined the committee
VICE-CHAIR CLAMAN asked for her thoughts on the new trooper
position within corrections to investigate inmate deaths. He
recalled a previous internal review process in corrections that
was removed.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE WINKELMAN said the previous position was
essentially an internal affairs unit within the department. The
benefit to the new trooper position is that it will bring an
outside perspective and provide a consistent point of contact
for the department and the Department of Law.
3:57:20 PM
VICE-CHAIR CLAMAN asked for a brief description of the Agnew
Beck study about mental health disorders and substance abuse
issues in the inmate population, the takeaways, and whether more
studies were needed.
COMMISSIONER-DESIGNEE WINKELMAN replied that the report
highlighted the significant mental health illness and substance
abuse issues within the inmate population. She said there's a
great need for services to address these issues and she's been
looking at the first step to start working on it.
3:59:29 PM
VICE-CHAIR CLAMAN opened public testimony on the appointment of
Commissioner-Designee Jen Winkelman; finding none, he closed
public testimony.
4:00:00 PM
At ease
4:00:55 PM
CHAIR KAWASAKI reconvened the meeting and announced the
confirmation hearing for Eric Feige to a seat on the Alaska
Public Offices Commission.
4:01:16 PM
ERIC FEIGE, Appointee, Alaska Public Offices Commission (APOC),
Department of Administration (DOA) Chickaloon, Alaska,
introduced himself and relayed his personal and professional
resume. He graduated from West Point and served in a variety of
command and staff positions before leaving the Army after Desert
Storm. He transitioned to flying airplanes and currently flies
cargo all over the world. He noted that he also served four
years in the Alaska Legislature. He reviewed APOC's mission and
said he wishes to serve on the commission as a way to give back
to the state. He believes he has the intellectual depth and
judicial temperament that the job requires. If confirmed, he
would be the only member with previous legislative experience
dealing with APOC rules. He'll be able to review appeals from
both sides. He will rely on facts and the law under Title 2,
Chapter 50. His plan for the near future is to meet with APOC
staff and become familiar with APOC regulations, procedures, and
processes.
4:04:37 PM
SENATOR CLAMAN asked for his perspective on following the advice
of counsel in APOC matters versus interpreting the law as he
sees it.
MR. FEIGE said he will rely on staff and counsel for specific
questions about the law, but overall it has to be fair. If he
sees areas where the regulations and statutes don't adequately
address particular situations, he'll discuss potential changes
with the other commissioners.
CHAIR KAWASAKI mentioned the budget cuts APOC had undergone the
last few years and asked if he thought the commission had the
tools necessary to accomplish the job of ensuring the integrity
of public office holders.
MR. FEIGE said if it becomes obvious that resources are
insufficient for the commission to do its job, he wouldn't
hesitate to bring that to the legislature's attention. Whether
or not the commission is doing its job may be a matter for
others to consider.
4:08:07 PM
CHAIR KAWASAKI opened public testimony on the appointment of
Eric Feige to the Alaska Public Offices Commission; finding
none, he closed public testimony.
4:08:36 PM
SENATOR CLAMAN stated that the Senate State Affairs Standing
Committee reviewed the following and recommends the appointments
be forwarded to a joint session for consideration:
Commissioner, Department of Corrections
Jen Winkelman - Juneau
Alaska Public Offices Commission
Eric Feige - Chickaloon
Signing the reports regarding appointments to boards and
commissions in no way reflects individual members' approval or
disapproval of the appointees; the nominations are merely
forwarded to the full legislature for confirmation or rejection.
4:09:01 PM
CHAIR KAWASAKI stated that without objection, the names will be
forwarded.
4:09:09 PM
At ease
SB 61-US PRESIDENT ELECT. POPULAR VOTE COMPACT
4:10:17 PM
CHAIR KAWASAKI reconvened the meeting and announced the
consideration of SENATE BILL NO. 61 "An Act relating to an
interstate compact to elect the President and Vice-President of
the United States by national popular vote; and relating to the
selection of electors for candidates for President and Vice-
President of the United States and to the duties of those
electors."
He noted that this was the first hearing.
4:10:36 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI, District K, sponsor of SB 61, stated that
the National Popular Vote Bill would guarantee the presidency to
the candidate who receives the most popular votes in all states.
He continued to introduce the legislation, speaking to the
following sponsor statement:
Senate Bill 61 will give every Alaskan voter a
meaningful vote in presidential elections by entering
the National Popular Vote agreement with other states
to guarantee the presidency to the candidate who
receives the most votes nationwide.
SB 61 would have Alaska join the 15 other states and
the District of Columbia that have already joined the
agreement. Together these states have 195 electoral
votes. Once states totaling a majority of the
Electoral College (currently 270 votes) join the
agreement, these states will begin to award their
electoral votes to the presidential ticket that
receives the most votes nationwide. Until this
threshold is reached, Alaska will continue to allocate
its electoral votes to the winner of the statewide
vote.
Under the current system presidential candidates do
little to campaign for Alaskan votes, and they do not
need to develop positions on or even learn about
issues unique to Alaska. The last time a major
presidential candidate came to Alaska to campaign for
general election votes was John F. Kennedy in 1960.
It is not only Alaskan voters who are ignored in
presidential elections almost all serious
campaigning happens in only 12 states. The entire
Pacific Coast includes non-competitive states meaning
presidential candidates do not have to address
concerns that Alaska shares with other West Coast
states like Pacific fisheries management. Under the
National Popular Vote system, savvy presidential
campaigns will fight for every persuadable vote, no
matter where they are located, and develop messages
addressing the concerns of all regions.
The National Popular Vote agreement will not give any
political party an advantage. An analysis by well-
known statistician Nate Silver found that "there's
almost no correlation between which party has the
Electoral College advantage in one election and which
has it four years later."
Passing SB 61 will help ensure that all American votes
truly are equal and that Alaskans' concerns must be
taken seriously by presidential candidates.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI briefly addressed some misconceptions about
the constitutionality of the bill. He quoted the US Constitution
that says each state shall appoint its electors based on
direction from the legislature. SB 61 does not do away with the
Electoral College system. Rather, the state would enter into a
contract to change the way Electoral College votes are cast to a
system where the winner of the national popular vote gets the
Electoral College votes. He said it's also a misconception that
the winner take all system of awarding Electoral College is in
the US Constitution. Just three states used it in the first
presidential election in 1789 and all three repealed that
provision by 1800. It was after almost all the founding fathers
were deceased that a majority of states adopted the winner takes
all system of awarding Electoral College votes. It wasn't until
50 years after that that all states adopted the winner takes all
system.
The story continues to 1969 when Maine changed to a district
system to award its Electoral votes and Nebraska followed suit
in 1992. This is a reminder that states have the flexibility to
decide how their Electoral College votes will be cast.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI highlighted the following data. Since 2008,
22 states have had no presidential campaign events, 9 states
have had one campaign event, and 95 of the 1,164 campaign events
occurred in just 14 states. Just 14 states received 98 percent
of the general election campaign events in 2008, 12 states
received 100 percent of the general election campaign events in
2012, 12 states received 94 percent of the general election
campaign events in 2016, and 12 states received 96 percent of
the general election campaign events in 2020. The vast majority
of political campaign events occur in just a small number of
states. In 2012, for example, candidate Obama conducted campaign
events in just 8 states after his nomination and candidate
Romney conducted campaign events in 10 states after his
nomination. Two-thirds of the presidential post-convention
campaign events occurred in just 4 states. Only 3 of the 25
smallest states received any attention after the 2012
conventions.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI disputed the claim that small states are
ignored because of their size, pointing out that they're ignored
because they're not closely divided politically. He said a vote
for president in Wyoming and Alaska is equal to a vote in
California and New York. They're all politically irrelevant
because the outcomes are clear before the vote is taken. By
contrast, SB 61 will force candidates to solicit votes in all
the states in the country.
4:16:15 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI stated that it's also a myth that the
National Popular Vote will advantage large cities. In fact,
large cities don't even control the elections in their state. He
listed successful candidates for governor of California going
back to Ronald Reagan who lost in Los Angeles but won the race.
Importantly, 85 percent of the population of the US live in
places that have populations of fewer than 365,000 people. It is
in those communities that presidential candidates will be forced
to campaign to win the election.
CHAIR KAWASAKI asked Mr. Dunsmore to present the sectional
analysis.
4:18:19 PM
DAVID DUNSMORE, Staff, Senator Bill Wielechowski, Alaska State
Legislature, Juneau, Alaska, presented the sectional analysis
for SB 61 on behalf of the sponsor.
Section 1 is a conforming section that references
Section 2.
Section 2 establishes that the statute for deciding
tied elections does not apply to the presidential
electors when the National Popular Vote provisions are
in effect.
Section 3 is a conforming section that references
Section 4.
Section 4 establishes that Alaska's ranked choice
voting system will be used for calculating the popular
vote totals.
Section 5 is a conforming section that references
Section 6.
Section 6 establishes that, when the National Popular
Vote provisions are in effect, Alaska's presidential
electors shall be awarded the winner of the nationwide
popular vote.
Section 7 is a conforming section that references
Section 8.
Section 8 requires that, when the National Popular
Vote provisions are in effect, electors shall be
required to vote for the presidential and vice-
presidential candidates who won the nationwide popular
vote.
Section 9 enacts the Agreement Among the States to
Elect the President by National Popular Vote.
• New AS 15.30.104 is the language of the
Agreement:
o Article I states that any state and the
District of Columbia may join the agreement.
o Article II requires each state to conduct a
statewide popular vote election for president
and vice president.
o Article III adopts procedures for awarding
electors to the winner of the nationwide
popular vote.
o Article IV states that the Agreement takes
effect when states representing the majority of
the electoral votes have joined the Agreement.
It also establishes procedures for states to
leave the Agreement.
o Article V defines terms used in the Agreement.
• New AS 15.30.106 establishes that the director of
the Division of Election is considered the "chief
election official" for purposes of the Agreement.
• New AS 15.30.108 establishes that when the
agreement is in effect, it shall take precedence
over any conflicting language in statute or
regulation.
4:20:53 PM
CHAIR KAWASAKI asked if there were other obligations that the
state would find difficult to comply with.
MR. DUNSMORE said not to his knowledge. The Division of
Elections acknowledged the bill would not have a fiscal impact
on the state and submitted a zero fiscal note. The state will do
basic arithmetic on the certified results from all 50 states and
the District of Columbia and award electors to the winner of the
popular vote.
4:22:08 PM
CHAIR KAWASAKI read a brief biography to introduce Dr. John Koza
who was an invited testifier.
4:23:18 PM
DR. JOHN KOZA, Chair, National Popular Vote; Author, Every Vote
Equal, Los Altos, California, testified by invitation in support
of SB 61, which would guarantee the presidency to the candidate
with the most popular votes in all 50 states and the District of
Columbia. He informed the committee of the shortcomings in the
current presidential election system. They stem from the winner
take all laws that Alaska and 48 other states passed. The states
award all electoral votes to the candidate receiving the most
popular votes in the state. The effect of the winner take all
laws is that some states are ignored during the presidential
election campaign. He stated that a presidential candidate will
not visit a state that is united in its party voting record.
DR. KOZA explained that presidential campaigns were limited to
12 battleground states comprising approximately 30 percent of
the country's population. He pointed out that all of the small
states were excluded with the exception of New Hampshire. He
added that one congressional district in Maine received campaign
attention. He added that nearly all Western States are excluded
from campaigning. He noted that most of the heartland, southern,
rural, and northeastern states are ignored in the presidential
campaign. The exclusion of states remains the largest problem
with the current system.
DR. KOZA continued that Alaska has two extra electoral votes
because of the state's two senators. He countered that the eight
smallest states with three electoral votes, like Alaska received
one general election campaign visit. He added that Wisconsin
received 58 visits over the last four elections. Wisconsin has
ten electoral votes. He pointed out that the winner-take-all
rule led to election results hinging on a few states.
The major problem with the current system is that three out of
four states are irrelevant to candidates thinking about getting
elected or reelected as president. A related problem is that the
current system threatens democracy. Winner takes all laws are
the cause of the problem and the reason that a national popular
vote would be better.
DR. KOZA recapped the sponsor's explanation of the Interstate
Compact and agreed that SB 61 does not abolish the Electoral
College. It changes the method by which states select their
presidential electors, guaranteeing that the Electoral College
represents the majority of the voters in the country. He
disputed the claim that the bill conflicts with Ranked-Choice
Voting. The bill designates the final count as Alaska's official
count on the Certificate of Attainment that shows the state's
votes for president and choice of presidential electors. He
noted that opponents of the compact have falsely claimed that it
allows election officials in other states to judge Alaska's vote
counts. The compact specifically requires all states belonging
to the compact to treat Alaska's determination of the
presidential vote count as final.
4:31:27 PM
DR. KOZA also disputed the claim that rural areas would be
ignored under a national popular vote. The evidence shows that
every vote is equal in the battleground states where
presidential candidates actually campaign. The winner is the
candidate with the most votes. He cited the example from
Pennsylvania which was the battleground state in 2020 that
received the most visits. When every vote is equal a candidate
can't ignore any area. He said another myth is that small states
are Republican. Of the 14 states that have three and four
electoral votes, seven are Republican and seven are Democratic.
He dispelled other myths including the claim that California
will dominate elections. It is one-eighth of the country by
population but there is an equally loyal group of Republican
states that balances California.
CHAIR KAWASAKI asked if there were questions for Dr. Koza.
4:35:39 PM
SENATOR BJORKMAN asked what outcomes he sees should the bill
pass.
DR. KOZA said you'll see that candidates have to campaign in
every state because a campaign that neglects a state would be
giving up votes. Small states would necessarily get the same
attention as the current battleground states. Turnout would also
rise because voters are more likely to vote when their vote has
been solicited.
SENATOR BJORKMAN asked if the idea is that presidential
candidates would try to run up their margins in safe states.
DR. KOZA said there aren't safe states in the National Popular
Vote. Every voter counts and every vote is equal. Every
candidate certainly will cater to favorable geographic and
demographic groups, but that balances out so that every part of
a state gets equal attention based on population.
4:40:21 PM
CHAIR KAWASAKI opened public testimony on SB 61.
4:40:40 PM
SAUL ANUZIS, representing self, Washington, DC, testified in
support of SB 61. He stated that he comes from a partisan
perspective and he wanted to dispel the notion that the bill is
partisan. He believes that the bill is a bipartisan approach to
a nonpartisan problem. His objective is to ensure that every
voter in every state is politically relevant in every election.
He cited examples that illustrate that the bill would provide
American reform that ensures that every state becomes a
battleground state and every voter is politically relevant.
4:43:52 PM
MICHAEL OWENS, representing self, Palmer, Alaska, testified in
opposition to SB 61. He opined that the bill is aligned with
Ranked-Choice Voting and that it's bad for Alaska. The Electoral
College has served the country well as evidenced in 2016 when it
saved the country. SB 61 seeks to change what's worked so well
for so long and he doesn't understand why anybody would support
that.
4:46:16 PM
JUDY ANDREE, representing self, Juneau, Alaska, testified in
support of SB 61. She opined that the Electoral College provides
a two-tiered system where everyone votes and then many votes are
left at the state line. She believes that every vote should be
equally powerful. She also pointed out that in recent years the
Electoral College has become a national security issue that's
made possible by modern technology that the founding fathers
could not have predicted. She said it's imperative to adhere to
the basic tenants of democracy while being flexible enough to
correct problems that weaken democracy. The Electoral College
may have been suitable in 1784 but America's purpose should be
to build a more perfect union by keeping the notion of that
perfection as the guiding star.
4:48:20 PM
ALEX KOPLIN, representing self, Homer, Alaska, testified in
support of SB 61. He said what he likes about SB 61 is that when
he casts his vote for president, it goes to that candidate.
Under the current system, his vote only counts if his candidate
wins the election in Alaska. Otherwise, his vote doesn't matter.
All three of Alaska's electoral votes go to the winner in the
state, regardless of the popular vote. This gives states more
power than individual voters when picking a president. If SB 61
were to pass, the winner of the popular vote would receive
Alaska's three electoral votes. It makes sense that every voter
should count. The people should decide who should be president,
not the states.
4:50:57 PM
KASSIE ANDREWS, representing self, Anchorage, Alaska, stated
opposition to SB 61. She argued that the Electoral College
preserves the constitutional checks and balances to power that
the founders intended. Every four years it provides a state-by-
state snapshot of the trends and political thought in the
country. She opined that switching to the National Popular Vote
would leave small states out in the cold while presidential
candidates would be focused on states like California and Texas.
She described the National Popular Vote as an end run around the
amendment process of the US Constitution.
4:52:29 PM
KEN HUCKEBA, representing self, Wasilla, Alaska, stated that he
vehemently disagrees with SB 61. He continued that there's a
reason the US has a representative republic and not a democracy.
True populism can be dangerous, particularly now when large
amounts of money can manipulate an election. He cited the
Bolshevik Revolution as evidence. The Electoral College was
established to prevent such things. If it's abandoned in favor
of the National Popular Vote, elections will be swamped with
candidates from every ideological group.
4:54:32 PM
KEN GRIFFIN, representing self, Wasilla, Alaska, stated
opposition to SB 61 as a citizen of Alaska. He maintained that
the biggest problem with elections is fraud. He mentioned the
use of the World Wide Web to access information and posited that
the idea that citizens aren't informed or that candidates aren't
campaigning in Alaska is ridiculous. He said Trump never came to
Alaska but he learned everything he needed to know about him as
a citizen. He opined that the bill goes around the rules without
going through the established process that has kept this country
safe.
4:56:41 PM
SEAN PARNELL, Save our State Action, Virginia, stated opposition
to SB 61 and noted that he submitted written testimony to each
of the committee members. He said the greatest defect in the
compact is that there isn't an official national vote count that
is reliably accurate and conclusive. He maintained that vote
counts from other states might not be accurate and that ranked-
choice voting will create additional issues because the compact
doesn't stipulate that other states must use the number on the
Certificate of Ascertainment. States can add phantom votes that
other states would have to accept as valid. Finally, millions of
votes could be excluded from the national vote if a state's
election practices do not conform to the compact definition of a
statewide popular election. He offered to send the California
2016 Certificate of Ascertainment which clearly shows an extra
4.2 million votes for Donald Trump and the New York 2008-2020
ascertainment certificates that show hundreds of thousands of
missing votes. He concluded by saying that the winner takes all
process can be fixed while keeping Alaskans in charge of
Alaska's electoral votes. Such changes could be in place for the
2024 election cycle.
CHAIR KAWASAKI asked him to send the letter he mentioned to
senate.state.affairs@akleg.gov and he would distribute it to
members.
5:02:11 PM
PAT REDMOND, representing self, Anchorage, Alaska, stated
support for SB 61 and the national popular vote. She's been
following the issue for 20-25 years and she believes it is a
better way to ensure that every vote counts. She expressed
optimism about moving forward into a new era of voting.
5:03:48 PM
KARLA HART, representing self, Juneau, Alaska, testified in
support of SB 61. She stated that she'd been following the
national popular vote concept for a long time. Dr. Koza, the
League of Women Voters, and the sponsor have spoken well to it.
She encouraged the committee to keep the bill moving forward.
5:04:44 PM
CHAIR KAWASAKI closed public testimony on SB 61 and held the
bill in committee.
5:05:27 PM
There being no further business to come before the committee,
Chair Kawasaki adjourned the Senate State Affairs Standing
Committee meeting at 5:05 p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| SB 61 Version B.pdf |
SSTA 4/25/2023 3:30:00 PM |
SB 61 |
| SB 61 Sponsor Statement.pdf |
SSTA 4/25/2023 3:30:00 PM |
SB 61 |
| SB 61 Sectional Analysis.pdf |
SSTA 4/25/2023 3:30:00 PM |
SB 61 |
| SB 61 Research NPV One-Pager.pdf |
SSTA 4/25/2023 3:30:00 PM |
SB 61 |
| SB 61 Letter of Support League of Women Voters of Alaska.pdf |
SSTA 4/25/2023 3:30:00 PM |
SB 61 |
| SB 61 Fiscal Note OOG-DOE 3.10.2023.pdf |
SSTA 4/25/2023 3:30:00 PM |
SB 61 |
| Commissioner of Corrections Appointment - Jennifer Winkelman Resume 2.10.2023.pdf |
SSTA 4/25/2023 3:30:00 PM |
Governor's appointee Department of Corrections Commissioner |
| 3.8.23 Eric Feige APOC Resume_Redacted.pdf |
SSTA 4/25/2023 3:30:00 PM |
Governor's Appointee Alaska Public Offices Commission appointee |